This interview was painstakingly translated into Greek by the good people of Rock Hard Magazine, for which we are incredibly grateful. You can find the English version below.
By listening to your album, I get that you have different influences as a band, but they all seem to “agree” to bands like ALICE IN CHAINS, TOOL and ANATHEMA. Is that so?
Phil: It’s always a tricky thing to talk about influences, because as soon as you start to list the bands that you like, it inevitably focuses people’s attention on that element of the music. I would agree that the bands you listed are influences, for sure, but I’d also say there are a number of other elements swirled into the mix that are less expected (and, thus, less spoken about). Just as one example, Rich and I are both huge fans of the Manic Street Preachers and, although we didn’t set out to explicitly write the song in that way, there are definitely elements on the album that are influenced by that band. Again, the problem for me is that, once you start to tell people that a certain song had “X” as an influence, you’re inevitably pinning that label to the piece forevermore. I much prefer that people take away what they want from our music than set out with a preconceived notion of what we sound like as a result of us listing the bands that we love.
Rich: Yeah, influences are a curious one. How often do people come up after gigs and say you sound like something that had never occurred to you or even heard of? It works the other way too. You wouldn’t say that 90’s video game soundtracks are an influence, and yet I know it’s there somewhere in tiny little bits. Also, on the guitar I’m probably as influenced by Blur and Radiohead as anything such as Alice In Chains or Tool, but you’d struggle to pin them down on the record. I suppose my hope is that it’s those little things that serve to make us sound just a little different to other artists.
You exist as a band for many years, but only until 2017 you managed to release your debut album. What made you exist as a band although you didn’t release anything for 7-8 years?
Phil: Well, it’s not that we didn’t release anything. Like a lot of bands, we started out by developing and self-releasing a handful of Eps (all of which are available for free download via Bandcamp), and each one, I think, shows a considerable progression upon the last. The first EP was in 2011 and was entitled ‘live with doubt’. It’s a lot heavier and rawer than anything on the album, and we still play the odd track from it live (particularly ‘Endgame’ which has long been our set closer). Then, Rich, Jola and I worked on an acoustic EP, ‘Somnambulant’, which was much more progressive in flavour. It was entirely home recorded, and it taught us a lot about how to record – in fact, I don’t think we would have been able to approach the demos for the album in the way that we did, if it hadn’t been for ‘somnambulant’. It’s funny, because I don’t often think about that EP now, but, when I do hear it, I’m always very proud of what we achieved at that point.
The final EP was ‘Closed to the light’, and that was pivotal, I would say. It was the first EP to be recorded with Ches, our drummer, and it was a much more ambitious undertaking than our previous efforts. It saw the addition of synths to the mix, it featured stronger songs and it was the first EP to pick up a large number of reviews. More to the point, it also captured the attention of Wahoomi Corvi, who produced our debut.
So, basically, we spent our formative years stabilizing our line-up (lots of drummers in lots of gardening accidents…) and honing our song-writing. And, of course, although the album was released in 2017, it was the result of almost two years of work, from the initial discussions through to the eventual release of the record. We wanted to be as ambitious as possible with this album and we wanted to take time to get the songs and the ideas right before committing to tape.
By reading your press release, one can easily understand that you are not a fan of streaming and downloading. However, sending mp3 files of your album, can make bands like FINAL COIL more accessible to anyone, thus making you have more audience in your live shows. How do you feel about that?
Phil: Ah yes. Streaming and downloading. I can understand the need for convenience (and even space) in the modern age, but I also think that streaming and downloading have done more for the commodification of music than any other technological development. Obviously there are many different types of music and some of those forms will have more longevity than others. For me, the music that has lasted the longest – music like Tool, Anathema, Pink Floyd and so on – is the music that took a certain effort to appreciate. In many cases, it was music that did not sit well out of the context of the album for which it was made, so a certain commitment of time and, of course, money needed to be made. The result is that I have had life-long love affairs with albums like ‘animals’, ‘lateralus’ or ‘the holy bible’. Yet, if that music had been available, as it is now, in streaming or downloadable form, I wonder if I would have put the same amount of time and effort into really listening to those albums, or if I would have skipped to something easier and more instantly listenable.
The problem for me is that, as artists find that they have to make their sound more accessible in order to survive, we are going to increasingly lose that artistic spark that characterized the great bands. However, it’s not all doom and gloom. There are still plenty of great artists focusing on making albums, and releasing physical formats, and we’ve certainly seen a large number of people who want to get hold of the CD and/or T shirt that we released, thanks in no small part to Andy Pilkington’s amazing artwork. Moreover, the ability to send files instantly is a great boon to bands such as Final Coil, and I am quite certain that there are many people who do still consume albums as complete works, at least for the time being.
Perhaps, as with all forms of technology, it’s not a matter so much of fearing the change as trying to find new ways to adapt to it… but for me, there will always be a love of the physical product – the artwork and liner notes – it’s just a huge part of the experience of listening to a record for me.
Rich: Without doubt, downloading and streaming is very convenient – we use both a lot at home and I love a good shuffle, and while sometimes I do come across new artists or songs I missed previously in that way; with a lot of the music I love, you lose the context in which it was made. Now, while it’s easy to retrospectively find out if you want to, you don’t get to that point that makes music so cool without the previous experience. Couple that with the fact that, with artists who are in a constant battle to be heard, if they get something that works once, naturally they will want to repeat that. The most enduring bands evolved significantly over a long time, which made them even more interesting. Even if they wished to, I’m not convinced they would necessarily have the opportunity now.
How did you choose to have Magnus Lindberg from CULT OF LUNA master your album? Did you like the band itself or his work?
Phil: Well, Magnus Lindberg… he’s just incredible at what he does, isn’t he? Certainly, I’m a huge fan of Cult of Luna. I would argue that ‘Mariner’, the album they recently released with Julie Christmas, is a masterpiece. It is the perfect example of an album that is meant to be listened to as a whole and it is just perfect, sonically and artistically. I mean, the band’s entire back catalogue is just remarkable, but ‘Mariner’ is a cut above and was easily one of my albums of the year. So, from that alone, I knew that Magnus would be someone who would appreciate the ideas that we had and the fact that we didn’t just want to whack the volume up and slam the listener with each track.
We actually did a lot of test masters with different people, and I heard some examples that were much more compressed and much more in-your-face, but that was not at all what we were looking for. We wanted a record that people would hear in different ways at different volumes. It’s a very dynamic album, and if you put it on nice and quiet, you’ll hear it a certain way; but then if you put it on at full blast, the instruments will expand and fill out the space and you’ll hear it in a totally different way. That stands in opposition to a lot of modern records I guess, and it may even cost us listeners if people just whack it on via Spotify or whatever, but this record had to sound right – that was so important to me, and to the band as a whole.
Rich: Mariner is a stunning album. That was all the convincing I needed after Phil had discovered his availability!
Now that the album is out since a few months, how do you see the reception to it by the people and the Media?
Phil: It’s been absolutely remarkable to be honest.
We didn’t know what to expect when we put the album out, because we know that it’s not easy music. It’s not easy to categorise and it’s not that immediate. So, we weren’t sure how it would be received, but that’s the risk you take when you put something out into the public domain. With the best will in the world, you can’t think about it too much, because if you do, you’ll end up compromising your work and writing songs that you think people will want to hear rather than songs that represent what you want to write.
So, of course, we were a little nervous, but actually, we’ve been incredibly lucky. The reaction from the media has been, by and large, incredibly positive and, of course, when you see comparisons to bands like Tool, Pink Floyd, Anathema – just in terms of the quality of those bands’ output – it’s incredibly humbling for us.
I think that what’s stood out for me the most is just how many reviewers really took the time to listen to it as an album. These are people who, for the most part, have jobs and families and they review music for the simple love of the music itself, and the fact that they took an hour or more out of their day (considerably more, looking at some of the reviews) to really dig into our influences and the intent behind the album – that means the world to me.
So, it’s been a very humbling experience and we really couldn’t be happier with the way that the album has been received.
Rich: That people are still keen on talking about it now a good while after release is also very encouraging. We’re all very aware how important ‘presence’ can be for artists.
While you definitely hold many grunge influences, I can’t help but describe your music better as “proggy”. Which do you consider to be the elements that make modern music progressive? Which bands do you consider progressive nowadays?
Phil: The term progressive is a funny one because I think that it has deviated somewhat from its original intent. For many people, it seems to be a turn-off because it either suggests a fixation on technicality or because it seems to imply that you automatically sound like Genesis, so I’m always a little bit wary of the term.
However, if you take ‘progressive’ to simply mean that a band is progressing beyond the preconceived boundaries of genre, then, yes, I’d agree absolutely that we’re ‘proggy’. Certainly it’s the case that we never wanted to be pigeonholed into a given category because it just seems to be so unnecessarily limiting, and I think that’s the case for any band that I would consider to be progressive.
So, in terms of whom I would consider to be progressive, I guess I’d look to artists like Steven Wilson, Tool, Ulver, Steve Hackett, Devin Townsend, Amplifier, OHHMS, Ramage Inc… those are the artists that, to me, are pushing the boundaries of their respective genres to create something unique, and that’s how I’ve always felt progressive music should be.
Rich: Prog is a funny term. I guess I think of us as proggy in a similar way to Nine Inch Nails or Smashing Pumpkins, though I’ve rarely heard the Pumpkins touted as a prog band. I suppose I’ve always thought of it as bringing those ‘proggy’ elements that I like such as a slower dynamic development or less well-worn song structure within the songs rather than setting out for these technically elaborate epics which wouldn’t suit us or the vibe in which we seem comfortable.
If there was a band you’d like to tour with, which one would it be and in which era?
Phil: Well, I’m not much for looking back, so rather than focus on a favourite era, I’d rather say that we would love to tour with A Perfect Circle, as their sound is so unique and interesting that it would be a privilege to share a stage with them.
Rich: APC is a good shout. Amplifer or NIN would be nice! Maybe we could have been Pink Floyd’s surrogate band for ‘The Wall’. That would have been fun!
If you asked me what I would do if I were you in your next album, I would have more variety in vocals. What do you think should change/evolve in your next album? Which direction do you want to take in the near future?
Phil: It’s funny how the vocals have become one of the most controversial aspects of this album, because, for us, it was obvious that this was not going to be an album with heavier vocal lines. If you listen to our back catalogue there’s quite a variety of vocal styles, and even on this album there are heavier vocals present, they’re just mixed way down (this is particularly the case on ‘Myopic’). It was a deliberate choice, because, as we were working on the demos, we realized that we wanted the album to be much more ethereal and atmospheric, and heavy vocals just took the listener completely out of the environment we were trying to create. For many people, screaming = passion, but that’s not a view I subscribe to. It doesn’t mean, of course, that there won’t be heavier vocals in the future – but they have to fit the song (and, by extension) the album – we won’t employ them simply because it’s expected.
In terms of the overall sound of the band developing, its hard to say because I’m too close to the process. I believe that I am always learning and evolving as a song writer, but it’s not a conscious process as such. I never sit down and think “today I’m going to write a song that uses X”, rather I find that I get an idea rattling around in my head and, if it persists long enough, then I’ll sketch it out into a track. For sure we learnt a lot on the last record, but we haven’t evolved so far that there won’t be a ton of good riffs for listeners to get their teeth into! We like riffs. And teeth.
Rich: I think with our general direction, the aggressiveness in vocals is more effective used particularly sparingly. I think with the next record there may be more diversity between more ‘naked’ vox and potentially even more elaborate arrangements in places.
I think now we’ve one album under our belt, we might try to integrate more of a narrative context to hang everything together.
Maybe a quad disc with each a narrative from a different protagonist. About cheese
I guess you try to do as many live shows as possible to promote the album. What are your future plans in terms of promotion/live shows? Is there any tour in the making?
Phil: We very much want to get out on the road, and particularly we want to head to Europe to tour, so if you want to see us in Greece, let us know about it! However, at present we’re working very hard on new music and that doesn’t allow much time to get out of the rehearsal room. I can’t really say too much about our plans at this stage, alas, but watch this space because we have plenty of exciting things to announce later in the year.
Please, end the interview as you’d like.
Phil: Really, we just want to say thank you. This album was a labour of love for the whole band and it never ceases to amaze us when websites and magazines from all over the world want to speak to us about it. To anyone who’s bought our album, streamed a song or shared our material – thank you. We hope to see you out on the road soon – bring ear plugs!
Rich: I’d like to leave this interview in a blaze of feedback and guitar loops whirring around much like we end our shows, however it’s difficult to spell. How about: Zkbisndlkiidnflkkccccxppppzzxxjnshtgggg lkkkk gggllkkl xxxxxxxxxxxxx beeeep.